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chipadeedoodahIf you're a media hype sucker like me and you're going to go buy Halo 3, and if you're also a SHINY METAL TIN sucker like me (no apologies, metal tin casing is awesome), make sure to open up your copy of Halo 3 in the store, in front of the cashier.
I went to Wal-Mart Supercenter Store #1231 for the 12:00am release event tonight becauseI love the mixed smells of desperation & unwashed nerd they didn't require you to pre-order and I was bored. Fortunately, this particular Wal-Mart is so damn big that I had the game open before I got from the electronics department to the exit, so I saw that the disks were loose in the case, scratched, and rattling around before they could blame me for it. (Thanks to 5hmoo for the link.)
I took the package back to the cashier, who swapped it for a new copy. I opened this one in front of her, same deal. The disks were scratched and rattling around in the case. This made the cashier very upset. I opened a third one, with her bitching loudly about how I should just go home and try it, because she's got tons of scratched games and they work fine and I can just bring it back to any Wal-Mart and she wasn't going to open any more. This third one was damaged, too. She insisted that I keep it, no refunds, no more exchanges, and if it didn't work after I got it home and tried it, I could take it to the service desk at the front of the store. I told her that I believed the service desk would refuse to refund if I took scratched media home, because they would believe that I was the one who scratched it. She opened her mouth to reply to this, then closed it again.
Now, in this package only one of the DVDs is essential (the game disk). You can play the entire game just fine without the second DVD, which is just self-congratulatory making-of advertisements like you'd find on a 2-disk movie DVD. I didn't really care about it except on principle, I was buying the limited edition just because I like shiny metal cases. Since the point is to play the game, and in the end the bonus DVD and the metal box the special edition of the game comes in just aren't important, I was willing to just return the special edition and get the regular, slightly cheaper single-disk normal edition. At least this way I could make sure I got a game that would play without any problems.
At this point, I had a conversation with someone I believe was the manager of the department (he sadly was wearing a blue izod shirt with a red alligator, and had no name tag) that went something like this:
Me: "Look, just give me one with a good game disk. We can swap this for a regular edition, I don't even care that much about the extra stuff. The first one I opened was in better shape than this third copy."
Manager: "I can't refund you for open media, and I can't keep opening these up. I've only got 7 left."
Me: "It's not my fault they're defective in the shrink wrap."
Manager: "I understand that, but once these are open I can't sell them."
Me: "For $75, this had better be perfect, but it's not. The DVDs are scratched and I won't accept that."
Manager: "Once these have been opened, I can't sell them."
Me: "You shouldn't have sold these 3 copies anyway, they're all scratched and defective."
Manager: "I don't know what to tell you."
Me: "Wouldn't you rather know that they're defective before they go home with customers? Are you telling me you'd rather not know if you're selling a defective product? Every one of these we open that's scratched isn't in saleable condition anyway."
Cashier: "you don't know it's defective! You haven't plugged it into the player and tried it!"
Manager: "I can't sell these once they've been opened."
Me: "So you're telling me you'd be happier not knowing if these 3 open copies were scratched, and instead you'd rather they went home with customers who may or may not ever get around to returning them when they don't work?"
*Manager starts to nod, catches himself, stops.*
Manager: "I don't know what to tell you."
Before I could continue on our merry-go-round of circular argument, another customer came up and exchanged his copy, because it was also scratched. He left without opening his new copy, but his returned copy only had a scratched up extras disk. For those keeping count, that makes 4 open copies of the game, 3 of which are scratched on both disks, 1 of which is scratched only on the disk nobody cares about, so we had an out. Even so, I was persistent to the point that they opened up an XBox 360 there in the store, and we tested out the best-looking of the bonus disks from among the 4 copies. They acted the whole time like it was this HUGE ordeal I was putting them through for nothing. After establishing that it at least started up, they kicked me out.
I'm pretty pissed off. Wal-Mart Corporate's going to hear about this tomorrow, as will The Consumerist, for all the good it will do me to tell either of them. I mean, it was pretty cool of them to open a 360 so we could test out the disk before they kicked me out, but if the product is sold as new, I should get it in new condition.
I dunno, what do you think? Am I being unreasonable? I mean, we're talking about what's probably only a cosmetic flaw in a luxury good, and I'm trying to keep some perspective here. it also seems like they were willing to meet me halfway by testing out the disks and proving that they at least boot (although with optical media, that's really no guarantee of anything other than that the disk boots). But goddamnit, if you're acting like you're selling new, undamaged product, don't get upset at me when I point out that it is in fact damaged. I'm not the one who shipped you potentially defective product, and I got treated like dirt because I wouldn't just suck it up and go home.
I went to Wal-Mart Supercenter Store #1231 for the 12:00am release event tonight because
5hmoo for the link.)I took the package back to the cashier, who swapped it for a new copy. I opened this one in front of her, same deal. The disks were scratched and rattling around in the case. This made the cashier very upset. I opened a third one, with her bitching loudly about how I should just go home and try it, because she's got tons of scratched games and they work fine and I can just bring it back to any Wal-Mart and she wasn't going to open any more. This third one was damaged, too. She insisted that I keep it, no refunds, no more exchanges, and if it didn't work after I got it home and tried it, I could take it to the service desk at the front of the store. I told her that I believed the service desk would refuse to refund if I took scratched media home, because they would believe that I was the one who scratched it. She opened her mouth to reply to this, then closed it again.Now, in this package only one of the DVDs is essential (the game disk). You can play the entire game just fine without the second DVD, which is just self-congratulatory making-of advertisements like you'd find on a 2-disk movie DVD. I didn't really care about it except on principle, I was buying the limited edition just because I like shiny metal cases. Since the point is to play the game, and in the end the bonus DVD and the metal box the special edition of the game comes in just aren't important, I was willing to just return the special edition and get the regular, slightly cheaper single-disk normal edition. At least this way I could make sure I got a game that would play without any problems.
At this point, I had a conversation with someone I believe was the manager of the department (he sadly was wearing a blue izod shirt with a red alligator, and had no name tag) that went something like this:
Me: "Look, just give me one with a good game disk. We can swap this for a regular edition, I don't even care that much about the extra stuff. The first one I opened was in better shape than this third copy."
Manager: "I can't refund you for open media, and I can't keep opening these up. I've only got 7 left."
Me: "It's not my fault they're defective in the shrink wrap."
Manager: "I understand that, but once these are open I can't sell them."
Me: "For $75, this had better be perfect, but it's not. The DVDs are scratched and I won't accept that."
Manager: "Once these have been opened, I can't sell them."
Me: "You shouldn't have sold these 3 copies anyway, they're all scratched and defective."
Manager: "I don't know what to tell you."
Me: "Wouldn't you rather know that they're defective before they go home with customers? Are you telling me you'd rather not know if you're selling a defective product? Every one of these we open that's scratched isn't in saleable condition anyway."
Cashier: "you don't know it's defective! You haven't plugged it into the player and tried it!"
Manager: "I can't sell these once they've been opened."
Me: "So you're telling me you'd be happier not knowing if these 3 open copies were scratched, and instead you'd rather they went home with customers who may or may not ever get around to returning them when they don't work?"
*Manager starts to nod, catches himself, stops.*
Manager: "I don't know what to tell you."
Before I could continue on our merry-go-round of circular argument, another customer came up and exchanged his copy, because it was also scratched. He left without opening his new copy, but his returned copy only had a scratched up extras disk. For those keeping count, that makes 4 open copies of the game, 3 of which are scratched on both disks, 1 of which is scratched only on the disk nobody cares about, so we had an out. Even so, I was persistent to the point that they opened up an XBox 360 there in the store, and we tested out the best-looking of the bonus disks from among the 4 copies. They acted the whole time like it was this HUGE ordeal I was putting them through for nothing. After establishing that it at least started up, they kicked me out.I'm pretty pissed off. Wal-Mart Corporate's going to hear about this tomorrow, as will The Consumerist, for all the good it will do me to tell either of them. I mean, it was pretty cool of them to open a 360 so we could test out the disk before they kicked me out, but if the product is sold as new, I should get it in new condition.
I dunno, what do you think? Am I being unreasonable? I mean, we're talking about what's probably only a cosmetic flaw in a luxury good, and I'm trying to keep some perspective here. it also seems like they were willing to meet me halfway by testing out the disks and proving that they at least boot (although with optical media, that's really no guarantee of anything other than that the disk boots). But goddamnit, if you're acting like you're selling new, undamaged product, don't get upset at me when I point out that it is in fact damaged. I'm not the one who shipped you potentially defective product, and I got treated like dirt because I wouldn't just suck it up and go home.
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no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 09:14 am (UTC)The manufacturer shouldn't really complain, anyway, since it's due to a flaw in their package design (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/389694/halo_3_limited_edition_defect_causes.html). Of course, that doesn't mean they'll make it easy for anyone. Glad you managed to (finally) find a decent game disk. Hope the bonus one works for you, too.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 04:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 09:40 am (UTC)Possible scenarios:
1) Have the manager/cashier write a note saying "I verified that these disks were scratched when new; Mr. Chip may return these for a full refund, no restocking fee, if he returns them within the normal x day window." Have the manager verify and sign and date this note, and have him print his name and title (so that during the day shift if/when you return it, they won't go "I have no idea whose signature that is").
2) Give you a free cd scratch cleaning kit.
3) Offer to open a cd scratch cleaning kit and clean the scratched DVD's, or let you clean them.
4) The opening of the Xbox seems gratuitous; I'm surprised they don't have a floor model already open for display/play purposes. However, it was still an option.
5) Better still, combine #4 with allowing you to watch/play the DVD until you were satisfied most of the stuff worked. Perhaps combined with #1.
6) Once you'd had a "good" game disc and a scratched bonus disk, offer to let you watch the DVD on one of the store TV's until you were satisfied. Again, combined with #1 and maybe #3.
The problem isn't even that the manager preferred to sell you broken merchandise, hoping that you might not return it.
The problem is that it's the manager's job to solve problems for customers in a way that makes them want to come back, and from the outset they told you, "I'm sorry sir, you think there's a problem here but there isn't." That's not bad customer service, that's extremely good customer neglect. (what if they told you that, for instance, if your complaint was "my credit card was charged twice?")
Where's the happy smiling ball now? (btw, you should use some or all of that last paragraph in your letter to Wal-Mart. Because really, the issue isn't damaged merchandise; it's how Wal-Mart treated a customer with an issue.
Wal-Mart isn't responsible for manufacturing the disks, and for the benefit of the doubt let's say the disks were really damaged before shipping and such (which they do control). There were many ways they could have helped you and you'd be happy, while still not opening any further merchandise.
Oh, and if you really want a kicker? Go to the store during a different shift, go to a section with breakables (light bulbs, or dishes/vases) and make a survey for the manager (you know, for your research project on....better yet, have A. go, it's her high school science project....anyway) -- ask things like "how many incidents of customer breakage did you have over the past week/month?" and "how much in retail value did that merchandise cost?" and "in how many incidents did you require the customer or an adult guardian of the customer to pay for the full retail value of the merchandise?" and "how much retail value did customers cover?" and "why?" with some checkboxes like "manufacture allows unlimited/$___/___% returns of merchandise (optionally per time period)" or "we expect a certain amount of breakage" or whatever.
I'd bet that no customer pays for a broken dish, even when they caused it. Manufacturers get defective product back all the time. And by trying to shut you up, as opposed to helping you, they have no idea how widespread the issue is. Maybe it's a bad batch, or maybe it got damaged on the truck. Who knows? This is how products get recalled, though, through enough complaints.
You may want to cc your letter to the makers of Halo, whoever they are. Obviously they're not going to drop Wally World as a distributor, but they should know about the scratches in case they get similar complaints.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 09:46 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-09-25 12:29 pm (UTC)I worked the returns desk, and I remember we were selling this piece of shit no name DVD player for $50. About 2/3rds of these turned out to be defective, and we would get large quantities returned/exchanged every day because the store stocked hundreds of these things. I remember the store manager made a point to make a large display of the machines because they were selling so well, even though he knew most would come back. That's how they work, sell the most they can regardless of the quality, and even if they know the products are defective.
And yeah, I feel your collector's edition pain. I hope Blockbuster won't give me a hard time, I'm just going to trade for the regular version.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 04:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 03:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 04:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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From:?
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2007-09-26 02:52 am (UTC) - ExpandRe: ?
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Date: 2007-09-25 03:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 04:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 04:24 pm (UTC)'Course I thought this before you even told the story.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 04:27 pm (UTC)<--nerd.
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Date: 2007-09-25 04:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 04:51 pm (UTC)Can't sell it?
Date: 2007-09-25 06:31 pm (UTC)dude
Date: 2007-09-25 07:36 pm (UTC)Make a stink and don't spend your money there anymore.
they suck and they hate gays and they hate you
I hates the walmart
Re: dude
Date: 2007-09-25 07:44 pm (UTC)Wal-Mart sucks, but they suck slightly, ever so slightly, just barely less than EB/Gamestop.
I went there b/c I had a lapse in judgment, all I can say.
Flaw in your thinking...
Date: 2007-09-25 09:34 pm (UTC)This is no more different than buying a candy bar with a dented end. It doesn't affect your enjoyment of the product, it's still like new.
In any case, it doesn't matter since Microsoft is replacing any scratched discs for free through 12/31.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemuse/xbox360/gameplay/discreplacement-program.htm
p.s. I bought a limited edition as well and my extras disc was scratched but fully functional.
Re: Flaw in your thinking...
Date: 2007-09-26 01:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 09:34 pm (UTC)- they flourish on low prices and volume, and don't need to retain individual customers;
- their power is such that companies with products to sell are forced to journey to Wal-Mart's offices, and try to persuade Wal-Mart to carry their products.
You should try anyway if you feel you should, but under those circumstances, it will be difficult to get Wal-Mart to treat a customer well.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 11:00 pm (UTC)Anyways, I had the same problem. I knew about the defect beforehand so I opened the game right there at the service desk where they were being sold. I went through 3 copies, all of which were scratched with a big round circle, similar to when the 360 scratches them. When I exchanged the last 2 the guy who was helping me tried buffing out the scratches with his shirt, then handed the disc back to me after he saw it was pointless, and said that it would still play fine on my 360. I guess everyone saw my problems with the limited and started opening theirs on site as well and almost everyone had defective discs as well. After the 3rd try I just asked if I could exchange it for a standard edition. The guy went ahead and did it and gave me back the difference. As I left, I noticed that there must have been 10 limited copies left, with almost 30 having been opened up and found to be defective.
If you're wondering what store this was at, it's the 24 hour supercenter in Gilroy, CA. If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to post my receipt showing they did the exchange so you can try your luck again.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-25 11:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 01:03 am (UTC)The sooner you leave, the sooner they can go back to counting the minutes left on their shift. If you want something better, you can shop somewhere that pays people enough to care.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 01:07 am (UTC)Aristoff
Date: 2007-09-26 01:45 am (UTC)As for the cashier, seems she's a little too lippy for her own good. Sounds like she needs a firm hand applied to her fanny.
Re: Aristoff
Date: 2007-09-26 03:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 01:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 03:04 am (UTC)But
SHINY METAL TIN. SHINY OBJECTS. OOO. SHINY.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 02:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 03:04 am (UTC)Now once you paid for it you are entitled to a refund or replacement if the store policy allows it. The manufacturer's warranty also covers defects in the product. It may suck but that is the way it is to prevent people from ruining merchandise.
The manager was right. You opened units that could have been sold. The fact that the merchandise was apparently defective en mass (discoverable only after opening several, and even then it might have only been a bad batch) doesn't justify anything. If you don't want defective merchandise complain to Microsoft, sue Walmart for knowingly selling defective merchandise, or take advantage of the return policies.
Simply opening more and more packages (including a new Xbox which you were never going to buy) isn't right any more than Walmart continuing to sell the product after they become aware that the problem wasn't just with a small batch (whether in that store or whatever).
Does this mean Walmart should sell a product they know to be bad? Of course not, but I bet that it is not the manager's call to issue a product recall or pull something from the shelves because a customer suspects the product might be defective, even with some evidence.
You had every right to complain (at the customer service desk) but Walmart certainly has the right to decide whether or not they are going to accommodate you. Ultimately though, it is the manufacturer who is responsible for defective merchandise, not Walmart.
You ought to be bitching at Microsoft. They have a history of this.
So IMO yes, you are being unreasonable.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 03:08 am (UTC)I paid for a copy of the game, and then opened it while still in the store. Repeat. In effect, I was taking advantage of the return policy each time I opened another new unit and found scratched disks inside.
Further, the store opted to open the XBox that I wasn't going to buy, at their own discretion. I never even brought the idea up, they were just gung-ho about it so I kept my mouth shut, and let them feed rope.
(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2007-09-26 08:18 pm (UTC) - Expandno subject
Date: 2007-09-26 03:17 am (UTC)I didn't work the night of the Halo launch, thank god, but I saw a fair # of things wrong, including the fact that the person in the Izod wasn't wearing a name badge. In fact, I wouldn't have left the store without his name, his title, the store manager's name (helpfully on the receipt under the store #) and the market manager's name.
Armed with that, I'd then call 1-800-Walmart, which routes first to corporate, and from there goes to the store manager (via email, I think).
And yes, they should have done everything in their power to help you.
Here's the problem (which isn't entirely the person in the store's fault): Corporate is all about sales and profit. In fact, the hourly associate's bonuses are focused on quarterly sales and profit metrics (which help to explain why my store is so understaffed). So, yes. They would rather people bought something without knowing if it was good or not (at the corporate level), because it increases sales and profit. When / if you bring something back, that takes away from both. And yes, they're banking on (again, at the corporate level) that some people aren't going to bother returning it to Wal-mart. Or, alternatively, that they'll return it to the manufacturer instead of the store.
Which is silly, because, if I remember right, Wal-Mart gets a credit from their suppliers for anything that is damaged upon arrival.
Personally, I wish I was in a position where I could do something about this. I'm not, though. In fact, the odds are high that I never will be, at least not with Wal-Mart (which is an entirely different story, mind).
But get all the information you can (associate names, time, date, location, store manager name, market or district manager name, which is the same thing), and then call 1-800-Walmart. Hope that helps.
just saying ...
Date: 2007-09-26 03:29 am (UTC)sorry you went through that, lesson learned though!
personally i've always had excellent experiences with compusa and fred meyers (though they don't stock nearly as much as everyone else, but at least their service has always been great for me).
You are wrong. I work at walmart..
Date: 2007-09-26 05:50 am (UTC)1. The big sign above the registers or in electronics area clearly state the software return policy. Regardless of what YOU think, its still the policy. UNOPENED software only is allowed to be returned or refunded. Now from my view they went beyond the duty of allowing you to get new software in the first place.
2. The person you talked to at night was not the store manager, he was a assistant manager, store manager does not come in at midnight, they only on during days.
The biggest no brainer why you are unreasonable is that scratched disk does NOT MEAN IT DOES NOT WORK. I have CDs from 8 years ago scratched that play perfectly. DVDs i bought years ago work fine still to scratch like crazy.
Pretty much everything you wrote points to no wrong doing. If anything you opening the packages in front of clerk could make you..never mind.
Re: You are wrong. I work at walmart..
Date: 2007-09-26 07:51 pm (UTC)I'll check though.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 08:22 am (UTC)As far as being unreasonable goes I think you were totally in the right. I wouldn't buy something that was suppose to be in a new state that was damaged. I think the manager you spoke with only cared about his margin being up. A quality retailer should have resolved this problem by giving you a box with a pristine video DVD and opening a normal copy of the game and trading it out with a scratched up on. This way you get you complete box set and they have a lower cost item to return. Really though, if they knew there was a problem with the box sets they should remove them from the floor and send them back to the manufacture.
~infinityv~`
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 12:32 pm (UTC)You do have the right to check your merchandise for defects before you take it to the cash register if you have a reason to suspect damage. You also have the right to open paid for merchandise right there and return it immediately regardless of policy if it is damaged as you have not had the opportunity to damage it. I open many a box in the store with an associate present before i purchase any costly object so that i can be assured I am receiving an undamaged product.
You cannot tell if a scratched media will work or not until you get home, at which time you run the risk of a fight to prove you didn't damage it, so why in hell would you take such a risk? Some of the above posters are out of their mind.
As for the x-box 360, Walmart didn't take a loss, they repackaged it, re taped it and stuck it back on the shelf. My wife worked for them once and they put returned open goods back on the shelves for resale. My wife knew the signs that something had been through returns.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 01:41 pm (UTC)Its not walmarts fault but microsofts. Wallmart did eveything they could. You were returning 5 copies which is TOTALY RETARDED. Give up on second one and just return it. Accept thats how they come. It doesnt bother you that you waisted that much of their time and money?
I guess you dont work retail. Plus I dont how scratched these cds are but in one weeks use they get their scratches and scuffs anyway.
I bought a bad 360 game which has problems reading it sometimes and sometimes freezes in game.... I suck it up. Its a video game. Theres worse problems in the world.
You are not unreasonable. Anyone who disagrees is a tool.
Date: 2007-09-26 07:24 pm (UTC)I'll admit I could be wrong, but I am yet to see a software policy that does not allow for exchanges for SAME product only on opened software. If anything the only exception is with products that use serial numbers, but even then you can usually at least get the disc swapped by the clerk so that you're not scamming an extra CD key. In the case of Halo, thats not even applicable.
A defective or used disc is not worth a new disc. To say you should have tried it is irrelevant, since its impossibe to determine if the scratch has affected anything because of all the aspects of the game. But even that aside, you are not getting the product in the proper condition that is associate with the price you are being charged. Period.
Even with a movie, where you can watch it through to see if it skips, that can be player specific. Some dvd players suck, and what works on one will not in another. I worked at a Blockbuster all through school, so I know how it can go. With a video game, you could spend 10, 20, 30 or more hours on it before getting to a point that requires data that the drive can't read. Its better to be sure NOW then to encounter a problem weeks down the road when its far more difficult to exchange, if not impossible.
Tards.
Date: 2007-09-26 07:27 pm (UTC)Re: You are not unreasonable. Anyone who disagrees is a tool.
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2007-09-26 08:33 pm (UTC) - ExpandWorst Buy
Date: 2007-09-26 09:47 pm (UTC)The lesser of two evils? Worst Buy > Walmart
Probably also a good thing I did it at the midnight opening. I am sure today they would refuse to let me downgrade my purchase and just say to send it back to M$. Sure the M$ replacement is free, but how long does it take?